##LOG BEGINGS##
Arian > hate the mittani atm for the april fools local being removed >_<
Hark > lmao
Arian > they are mean
Arian > stupid thing is all the arguments were valid >_<
Hark > I’m still not sure how I feel on the Local issue
Hark > I agree intel should be split from chat, just not sure that hidden completely is a great idea
Hark > I agree that at the moment it’s too easy for the “defender”, but removing local makes it too easy for the attacker
Hark > Its from one extreme to another
Arian > i don’t disagree
Hark > I would really like to see it decoupled from chat though
Hark > I also like the idea of linking intel into sov
Hark > perhaps some kind of threat warning based in [my skill] + [number of active alliance members in home space] + [Sov level of system] vs [his skill] + [number of attackers]
Hark > 1 guy in an atron flying into barely used alliance space with one guy ratting = dead ratter
Hark > a fleet of hostiles flying into heavily populated space = instant invasion alerts
Arian > I would argue a totally different but extreme change
Hark > do go on?
Arian > all lvl 4, low sec and null sec npc’s become capsuleer npcs and fit and act more like us, ie tackle etc, reduce number of ships per spawn to compensate but this will mean people will have to use “pvp” fits to rat.
Hark > agree totally so far
Arian > people will then not need to run for new ships to fight, will learn proper piloting skills both real and in their skill queue
Hark > yup
Arian > I would also stop npc’s showing as red crosses
Hark > hmm marginal, I think it would be too easy to hide in a group of NPCs but go on
Arian > that’s my point
Arian > think about it
Arian > make npc’s and players scannable
Arian > increase bounty on these better npc’s
Hark > As a PvP player I want to kill Players, to be tricked into PvE
Hark > NPC’s imo should play no major part in PvP
Hark > to do so muddies the waters
Arian > yeah but that is because the ai is so crap and there fits are so bad
Hark > no, i disagree, it’s because there is no raging nerd at the other end of the keyboard
Hark > I don’t want to kill computer controlled chars no matter how good the AI
Hark > I want to pitch my skill against another human
Arian > yup
Arian > i want there to be ways to spot players, but you have to work for it
Arian > works both for the attacker and defender
Hark > I don’t agree on that I am afraid
Hark > I just want to fight people not play hide and seek
Arian > it would work for your lone atron pilot 😉
Arian > sneaking around belts
Arian > oooooh!
Arian > how about a skill that could briefly disguise you as a npc
Arian > ?
Hark > urg
Hark > I’m sorry but I really strongly disagree on that
Arian > if you hadn’t noticed I am now in full brainstorm argue any point of view mode atm
Arian > not necessarily pov’s i feel
Hark > that’s fine
Hark > But Player Vs Player should not be Player & NPC vs Player & NPC with added confusion
Hark > I think were straying for the core point of how intel should be though
Hark > NPC disguises for people is a side point
##Break while Arian Loses a Hookbill##
Arian > my problem is how do you decouple a local chat and intel?
Hark > My view is that chat should become a delayed chat as per wormholes
Arian > other than how it’s done in wh’s?
Hark > and maybe even expand to constellation chat
Hark > then you add in some sensing skills
Hark > i.e. passive sonar
Hark > along with sonar modules for POS’s
Arian > yeah but constellation chat still says “looky shit has changed” for no effort
Hark > you also add skills for hiding from scans
Hark > (not directional)
Arian > do we need more than the player created chat channels? seriously?
Hark > yeah we do
Hark > because it’s an MMO
Hark > you don’t get to pick who you talk to
Hark > it’s called interaction outside of your friends list
Hark > but any way
Arian > yeah but we have the ability to create them at will
Arian > i mean keep militia, corp alliance etc
Hark > without local you can pick who you talk to
Hark > if someone isn’t in your militia, and not in your corp
Hark > if you don’t have local you don’t have to talk to them
Hark > and you should
Hark > because it’s an MMO
Hark > how would you exchange GF’s?
Arian > yeah but with alli and corp and the newb chats you can’t choose it
Hark > yup
Hark > and local is the same
Hark > again you’re getting past the point
Arian > yeah but local is now impacting interactions beyond chatting, ie the game 😉
Hark > this is an MMO and should encourage social interaction, anything that removes that is a bad
Arian > hmmmm
Hark > I’m fine with removing local showing who is in system
Hark > widen it to constellation and remove the who is about bit
Hark > fine
Arian > ditto
Hark > that’s not a problem
Hark > but it should exist
Arian > ah i see
Arian > yeah that makes sense, just a name list, its for you to scroll through and check there bio etc
Hark > but then the advantage is too much with the attacker
Hark > so you need some way for the defender to have a chance of spotting someone before using a direction scanner
Arian > why?
Arian > if they were in pvp ships instead of crappy pve would they?
Hark > I feel so
Arian > okay, just throwing questions out, feeling around the problem 😉
Hark > I feel that if an alliance owns space they should have a slight advantage in detecting enemies
Hark > I think invisible local is a thing for wormholes
Hark > it makes them unique
Hark > and shouldn’t be copied everywhere
Arian > yeah, i agree, but i like the idea of removing colour tagging
Hark > so we have a Constellation chat and only people who talk are shown in it, ala wormholes…
Hark > agreed?
Arian > so far
Hark > now we add a UI point with three traffic lights
Hark > 1 is alliance space 2 is constellation 3 is system
Hark > the traffic lights go from green to red depending on what is detected in those areas
Hark > if someone attacks an alliance mate 15 jumps out “Alliance Area” goes red
Hark > if someone spots a gate activation in the constellation that goes Amber
Hark > if a scout sees an enemy in system that goes Amber
Arian > hmmm, not sure about that way easy to automate for the bot fleets
Hark > I get that but it’s still better than now
Arian > oh i am not being critical, tis better than what’s been bought up so far, just still trying to define the shape of the “missing piece”
Hark > so we could make it skill and chance based
Hark > that what it isn’t 100% infallible
Hark > and it isn’t 100% fool proof (or bot proof)
Hark > bots are repetitive
Hark > if you found one you just jump in and out of system a few times till you get lucky and don’t get detected
Hark > yup makes sense
Hark > I’m thinking something like a base of
Hark > on grid 80% change of an alert | direction scanner 50% chance of an alert | passive in system 5% chance of an alert
Hark > maybe with a POS mod which does a passive scan every 1 min with a 60% chance of an alert
Hark > add onto that player skills and alliance skills which can vary that by +-10% with a maximum of 90% chance of detection
Arian > hmmm okay, and effected by number of peeps
Arian > hostiles
Hark > yeah thou as the % calculation happens per person that happens more or less automatically
Hark > double the people double the chance for detection
Hark > encourages fleets to spread out and act like a hunting party too
Hark > I think he percentages are debatable and could be a LOT lower to give say upto 5 man fleets a lesser chance of being detected
Arian > also reduce it for… shock horror ship type…frigs low, covert ops low, hunking great bs high etc
Hark > agreed
Hark > but that’s detail
##END OF LOG##
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