Posts Tagged ‘forums’

BB 47: A complex complex of Complex complexes

Is EVE too complex for one person to know everything? Is it, in fact, too complex for one person to know everything about one topic? How do you maintain any knowledge or skills related to EVE over time with breaks and expansions? Does CCP do a sufficient job documenting the features of the game, and if not, what could they do better? How does one determine where the gaps in their knowledge even are?

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A glimpse into my world as a programmer...

A glimpse into my world as a programmer…

One thing I have come to learn, working in IT, is that Complexity, is almost always on an “opt-in” basis. For example, the code behind an enterprise system is very complex. Looking deeper within that code, you will find that the developer has likely created resources, used through the project, which they exposes like an API, which are even more complex. But when I write a report on the system, for management, I don’t need to explain all of the complexity to them, they opt out of that, and get by just fine without it. And indeed for me, as say a programmer working on the outer functionality of the System, I don’t need to understand the inner depths of the API I am using, so I opt out of that as well. That doesn’t mean that I don’t know the complexity is there, merely that I understand enough to avoid any pitfalls which I might find, and that I know where to go should I need to gain further knowledge on the subject.

Eve, in many ways, apes real life in a quite amazing fashion and complexity is just one example of how it does this. I believe that eve is, very complex, indeed as the BB question hints, it is too complex to know everything. Much like the management in my example before, if an everyday eve player spent their time trying to understand every minute detail of the system, they wouldn’t have any time left to make decisions based on that information. That’s why in both real life, and eve, we have specialists.

Eve is an immensely complex simulation not entirely dissimilar to Deep thought’s super computer “Earth”. Comprised of complex circuitry invisible to the naked eye, with information passing around it contained in packets which have free will. It would be impossible to comprehend everything, and anyone trying would be a fool.

So how do, or should, we keep up to date with the vital information which we need to live our everyday lives in new Eden? The answer is simple, we require several interfaces with the system each of which will trawl select aspects of the system, and pull important data from the muck. The interface will then need to process that rough nugget of information; trimming it and distilling it into a hard pure diamond of information, which it then presents to you, to instantly digest to gain the core of needed information. You need enough of these interfaces to bring you enough data nuggets to survive. What are these interfaces called? Well collectively, it’s a “community” individually, you might call some “friends” others “Blogs” and still more “Forum Posts”.

Eve is too complex to understand, but as humans we have developed a wonderful capacity to knowledge transfer. This is why, to me, you cannot play eve effectively without engaging with the community. Players who try to play eve without the community are attempting to learn everything for themselves, and as a result they are doomed to failure. Eve is complex, and that’s why it is so important that we engage in the community, to use the interfaces to learn quicker than we would as an individual.

Dunning-KrugerThis is not infallible however, as we are often exposed to micro versions of an aspect of the Dunning-Kruger effect. The issue is that the incompetent, by definition cannot comprehend their incompetency, because they lack the knowledge to define what is competent and what is not. Put simply we as humans cannot see where we lack skill, because we lack skill to recognise it. This is also why, as Jester rightly points out, we are all hanging over precipices, we can’t even see, hoping that someone else will fall down first so we might define our own ignorance. Does this mean eve is too complex? Does this mean that CCP don’t document enough, or should make eve simpler?

Categorically, I say no. I believe that such a mirror to real life is part of the wonder and excitement we experience by playing it. Yes once every so often you are going to be the person who falls down an invisible hole so everyone else learns, but we all have to learn to pick ourselves up and keep going. Furthermore we can all mitigate the likely hood of being the “Fall guy” in two ways: (to continue using the falling analogy), we are all like a person walking through an infinitely massive room, in pitch black with holes in the floor. By expanding our group, walking with more people through the darkness we are statistically less likely to be the person taking the fall. Furthermore, we can help the people closest to us to recover when they do take a fall for the group, and indeed in return we will hopefully receive that help when we take a fall for them.

In summary, yes eve is complex, no you can understand everything. No CCP shouldn’t “fix” this because it is this very factor which make the eve community so important to every player. It’s that emphasis on communication, and collective learning which enriches our community and nurtures a deep sense of camaraderie, the only thing which can offset the cold dark nature of the game we play.

Fly incompetently and proud,


Epic Skill guide

Just a quick one today to highlight something that I meant to do before I took my little break form the ‘sphere.

Here is a link to a great post on the forums from Louis deGuerre entititled Louis’s Epic Skill Guide. Its a good list of major skills every new eve player should know and understand. Its even a good bench mark for us older players to check our basics have been covered.

(not so) Friday Dev Watch 10/07/2012

Starting this week I’m going to trial giving a weekly post on Developer posts from the eve-o forums & other locations. Its not intended as a complete report on every dev post, but a selection of more interesting or funny posts made. Either way I’m hoping it might help some people cut through the swathes of bad posting on the eve-o forums to find the interesting tip-bits. enjoy!

An early Dev watch this week, as in a fit of real life I will be helping run Hospitality for Guildfest from tomorrow until Monday. If by any weird co-incidence any readers are going along to watch, you can enjoy thinking of me waiting hand and foot for the acts from 7am -1am everyday. The next Dev watch will cover from the 11/07/12 until 21/07/12 (boy that’s going to be a big one!), after which I will attempt to resume normal service! Here goes:

CCP FoxFour
Let test know that the CCP script running in local was incorrect, and that they were awarded 67.5 points in their match on Saturday.

CCP Sreegs
noted that MBIII’s elbows are too pointy, and went on to note that there was very little political commentary (regarding nullsec) from the commentators in ATX

In another thread Sreegs stated that he had made CCP Loxy play some blue grass [Hark: thank goodness, that dubstep  rubbish nearly drove me insane)

CCP Paradox
stepped in to public acknowledge the issue with killmails no publishing after downtime on the 9th. Despite “bribing the hamsters” he could not rescue the data and kills made during this period have been lost. Investigations are ongoing as some have reported a few podmails from that period being posted.

CCP Goliath (ONLINE)
Laughed at the following poem:

There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Built by CCP

He also spoke on the subject of the Unified Inventory (and its post deployment progress) stating that as team Game of Drones is currently on holiday (July is holiday season in iceland) progress was very slow. However he has promised that they will be going into planning mode upon their return.

CCP Punkturis
continued her MBIII thread by ousting CCP Foxfire as a man (although a very girly man apparently).

CCP Konflikt
started a thread about his kontakt a Dev programme if you need a dev outside of UTC work hour

Friday Dev Watch 06/07/2012

Starting this week I’m going to trial giving a weekly post on Developer posts from the eve-o forums & other locations. Its not intended as a complete report on every dev post, but a selection of more interesting or funny posts made. Either way I’m hoping it might help some people cut through the swathes of bad posting on the eve-o forums to find the interesting tip-bits. enjoy!

CCP Sunset

comments on how much she likes Michael Bolton’s Facial Hair, apparently she likes the villain look.

CCP soundwave also agrees

CCP karkur

Seems to be hinting she hid a subliminal message in the login screen.

she also commented on a Guide to Developer interaction in eve posted


CCP Cmdr Wang 
introduced us to a new member of the DUST 514 community team CCP Fame

CCP Veritas 
commented on the module lag on pre-firing modules, hints that it may be moved from client to server side to reduce lag. This is a big change, and mybe down prioritised.

he also talk about a possible future dev blog on the subject of 1hz ticks

he then went on to discuss the possibility of increasing the server tick rate, and the negative effects it would have on performance

CCP Habakuk

Asked people to test a fix for AA settings on the client causing slowdowns

In another thread Habakuk also confirmed that Supers are now to be seeded on SISI on a trial basis. They can be found 6-CZ49

CCP Snorlax

also commented on the AA fix issue and also acknowledged that CCP needed some better tools for bug collecting.

Both he and Habakuk went on to discuss the fixes success.

CCP Goliath

Weighed in on the new EU laws which has moved to guarantee the right of resale on software licences. Goliath (ONLINE) notes that as a PLEX is not an actual “Licence” merely named as such in game, the law will not apply. He also speaks as an industry insider on other companies the thread as talked about being affected

has also responded to what appears to be a troll on the Vagabond Frill campaign

right before…

CCP Navigator

Locked it

CCP Affinity

Talked about the roll back of the VG changes to Incursions. After an original response discussing the reasons for the change (i.e. CCP were un happy with the outcome) she confirmed that CCP has plans to fix OTAs

CCP Punkturis

requested naked pictures of michael boltonIII

CCP FoxFour

responded in a less than happy tone to CCP Punkturis’s request

as suggests it maybe some kind of “misery loves company” attitude

CCP paradox

lambasted a poster for a inappropriate responses to developer comments in a thread about V3’ing Angle[sic] ships.

CCP Manifest

Confirmed that he currently runs the official eve Facebook page, but later added that the spam issues mentioned in the OP were on a Fan based group, not the official one.

CCP Bayesian

commented on a thread about user content control. First to discuss exactly what CCP meant:

and also confirmed that the discussing was currently beyond the scope of the original idea